Hi all. If you're checking out my site because you're new to the Locost thing and thinking about starting a build I'll take time to share a few thoughts with you.
First let me say that I have only the experience of building this car, as far along as I am now.
I am not an engineer of any kind. I am no expert so keep this in mind as you read this. If you take exception to something I've said let me know, I may want to correct it.
Use your own head and think safety.
There is a lot of misinformation on the net and some of it may be right here.
Why build a Locost?
One of the main reasons is that a middle class guy like myself can build and own a truly high performance sports car for a budget we can afford.
Some guys build one just for the build experience, the problem solving aspect of of the thing.
Some guys build one just to race it.
Some guys just want a cool looking sports car to drive around town.
No matter what you end up with a pretty cool car for a budget price.
It's also a lot of fun, both building and driving.
Let me mention here that my site is intended for the street car builder, a guy wanting to build a fun little sports car for mostly street use. If your wanting to build a racer I would assume that you already know more than I do and aren't reading my site anyway.
Do I have the skills?
There again, only you can answer that. Some builders have lots of skill and experience building cars and already know a lot more than I ever will. I, on the other hand, had never tried to build anything like a car before.
I am a builder though. I build furniture and houses and a number of other things so I haven't found it to be all that hard to do. If you can build one thing you can build another, I suppose. just a matter of approach.
If you break it down into systems, chassis, suspension, drive train, etc. it's not as difficult as it might look. All just one system at a time.
The guys on the Internet boards are a great help. Someone out there can answer almost any question you might have, and will do so.
Welding: If you don't weld yet buy a welder and take a course. Most city's have someone who teaches welding at a hobby level. It's pretty expensive to take a certification course and it's not what we really need. Most anybody can learn to mig weld 16 gauge tubing. It isn't that hard. Good penetration isn't as much of a problem as not blowing holes in the tubing is. Start by welding up a kart for your welder, a work table, a stand to build the car on so your not down on your knees working. Build a garden gate for your wife or something. I've build several pieces of steel and wood furniture for mine. It helps justify the cost of the welder and give you some practice.
Just tack the chassis as you go. You'll have to remove something for some reason along the way and it will be much easier if it is just tacked. Trust me here.
If you try to fully weld as you go the heat will distort the frame and cause problems. tack first on the corners then go back much later and permanently weld in between, skipping all around the frame so as to not over heat any one area. This is how the pros do it.
If the welding was a big problem we'd hear about these cars falling apart all the time and we don't. Go for it , no fear.
How long does it take?
I've been working on my Locost since spring of 2002, just about seven years now.
I certainly thought I'd be done by now but I'm not. It's now February of 2009.
In watching the Locost North America group for all this time I've noticed most of the guys on the list have not finished their cars either. It takes a good bit of time for most of us.
For me, life keeps getting in the way of my fun.
I'm sort of simi retired at the moment and I'm moving along nicely, finally. I hope to have the car registered and on the street by summer 2010.
Don't expect this project to be finished in a year unless you have unlimited time and funds. To keep moving at any rate you will have to provide money "in the range of another car payment" each month. That and the time to assemble the parts you buy. Money seems to be my biggest hold up. I'm still hoping this speeds up soon.
It doesn't help that I keep customizing the design either.
Stuff like that just takes a lot of thought and planing time.
What is a good donor?
There are few perfect donors in the US. Certainly I would consider a Miada.
Small light duty pick ups are worth looking at. Chevy S10, Ford Ranger, and Datson.
These may require the chassis to be a bit bigger. You'll probably end up sourcing parts from several cars though. It's hard not to.
I like the Stalker V6 -S10 approach too.
I'm still happy with my choice of the Quad4 even though I haven't started it up yet.
From what I can gather it is a high revving engine and gets up into the power band quickly making it a good engine for a sports car, much better than it was for an heavy Oldsmobile. It also fits well with a little modification to the chassis. Plus 180 HP and it just looks the business. As the British say.
If I was looking today for some other engine I'd look at the Miata, the Ford Zetec, and maybe the most at the all aluminum Ford Duratech from the Ranger pick up. Even the GM Ecotech.
I think the Duratech has a lot to offer for a Locost, light weight. good power, and rear wheel drive set up. Plus go fast parts. What more could you want?
How much power do I need?
I think a hundred HP is quite enough for the car to be a lot of fun......That being said........Two hundred HP would be even more fun.
Keep in mind that the car is supposed to be a small, quick handling English sports car.
Personally I'd resist the urge to install a 300 HP V8. It will no longer be light weight or quick handling.
Yes, it can be done and yes it may be pretty fun on a certain level but don't be surprised if you take it to the track and a guy with a 80 HP four cylinder kicks your ass.
I think you have to make a decision up front what you want the car to be. What you will be doing with it.
If it's to be a track car build it as small and light as possible all the way.
If you just want a street car you may need it to be a bit bigger for your engine or other parts. It may end up a bit heavier as well. It should still be the best handling car you ever drove, though, and plenty of fun.
If you want it to be a small hotrod go ahead and stick that blown V8 in there. What the hell?
Your thing may be making a lot of noise while burning up a set of tires. what do they call that? drifting? Way too expensive for me but you answered the question of what you wanted the car to be. Build what you want. That's part of the beauty of the Locost.
Personally I'm building mine as a basic sports car/hotrod. I want it to drive well and be pretty good looking. that's important to me, I am an artist. I live here in south Texas where it is so flat you can see the next state from your roof................... I exaggerate a bit the curve of the earth gets in the way, nothing else.
Our roads are flat and stretch out for 500 miles in a straight line. We have no mountains, not even hills for about 150 miles.
Not really Seven country but I build one anyway. I'm not all that worried about it's handling being super, just good.
Right now, 2009, I'm living in Colorado and would like the car finished by next summer so I can play with it in the mountains before I go back to Texas.
How much does it cost?
The book says maybe as little as about $600 US. That was a misprint,........ one of many.
Look for this project to cost somewhere between $5,000 and $10,000.
You can always make it cost more if you want.
I started out thinking I could do it for about $5,000 but I'm now much more than half way and have spent about $8500 already. I then thought I could finish it for around $9,000.
Now, 2009, I'm thinking about $11,000 should do it.
You'd have to get a lot of cheap parts to do much under that. I do admit that I have spent rather a lot on the drive train. Purchasing and rebuilding the engine and transmission, buying a custom bell housing, clutch, through bearing, short throw stick. In all, I've spent about $3,500.
There is something to be said for using a nearly new engine and trans.
Keep tools in mind too.
I count my tools as capital investment, because I'm a builder and most of my tool expenses end up covered by jobs I'll been paid for. If you don't already own the tools it will be a significant expense, however, several thousand.
If you have little time and money, your wife is pregnant, and your building a new house this may not be the time in your life to start this project. Think carefully about this. There is a reason most of us are in our 50'S. (I read that in a poll)
I'll add a little more to the idea of time. I read an article that was talking about the percentage of people who start big projects like a car, a plane, or a sailboat who just never finish. the percentage was pretty high. Life has a way of getting our way.
This is not an easy project, by any means, and like I've said earlier it's important to decide just what you want from the car in the beginning. It seems to be very easy to get caught up in all the discussion on the web boards and start to overcomplicate the project. Pride gets in there and makes us want to build the perfect car. Keep in mind that you're trying to build a car for under $10,000. It won't be perfect no matter how hard you try. You'll have to make compromises because of the dollar amount alone, not to mention your own set of skills or lack there of.
Where I've noticed this the most is in the suspension. There have been many long discussions on how to make the perfect suspension........... perfect for what?
A fun street car and a dedicated racer will want/need completely different suspension tuning. The Lotus Seven was never designed to be a F1 car, the aerodynamics alone make that impossible. While it is possible to built a better suspension for your street car I'm not sure it serves much purpose to build more than you need. Try not to get carried away.
Yes, IRS is better than a live axle.
Everybody who is anybody is using it today, even Caterham has IRS on the new model. But the seven was designed with a live axle and it's worked pretty well for 50 years.
I doubt most of us would even notice the improvement for street use and it adds another layer of complication to an already complicated build. My point here is that it may add six months to a year to the build. Plenty of time for life to interfere with our plans of finishing the project, sometime in this lifetime, not to mention the extra cost of another set of a-arms. Think hard about this. Maybe if my donor had it and it was easy to do? the Miatas come to mind., but still???
Is the book front suspension bad?....... no, not really, but it could use a bit of improvement, since we can't get Cortina hubs here anyway and we'll have to use something else, we may also have to do some redesign to the front suspension to get:
A: the caster and camber right for our chosen spindles which will be different than the Cortina. and
B: get the front track to match the rear.
There are some guys on the English Locost Builders site, right now,(November 2005) talking about doing a redesign of the front suspension to use more world wide available parts and provide new drawings. This may soon be a good option. There are several books on suspension tuning that are worth a read for the help with modifying the front suspension, for your own needs or parts.
I found the book to be mostly general information and not very "seven specific" so don't expect them to tell you exactly how to do it.
Bump steer................. wow, is this a subject.
Lots of discussion on the forums and a good bit of it totally wrong. The problem is that several published articles and the books on the subject often seem to contradict each other. my feeling is that the writers are involved in different types of racing and the cars that go with them and that they don't exactly match a seven suspension set up. The whole thing is about getting the steering rack the right length, mounted at the right height, and the tie rods the right length and at the right angle as to not produce bumpsteer as the suspension travels.......... Whoo, that sounds easy.
So, do you need to lose a lot of sleep over bumpsteer?........I don't think so.
Most of the Sevens built to date have bumpsteer to some degree, (After all, Uncle Ron doesn't even mention it.) and it seems most of the drivers don't notice and don't care.
Just and abservation, but I havn't seen any posts on the boards form anyone with a finished car who says they have a big bumpsteer problem and need to know what to do about it, not one that I recall. this seemed strange to me so I posed these questions on both the Locost North America board and the Locost USA board.
If you have a finished drivable car, have you noticed having bumpsteer?
Did you do try to design any bumpsteer out.
Is it bad enough to want to fix it?
Did you fix it and what did you do?
Of the responces I got,( only a few,) the guys had not addressed bump steer at all in the planning stages. Not one of them claimed to notice it at all. Hummmm. I don't know?
Although lots of guys said they were planning/ designing to have no bumpsteer and thought they would have much better handeling cars when completed. Again, I don't know.
Collin Chapman made a design decision on this. He decided that to be able to buy a rack off the shelf, so to speak, far out weighed a small bit of bump steer. The cost of custom steering parts to completely fix the bumpsteer would be quite high. Up toward $1000 for parts maybe, new.
To have much bumpsteer you have to have suspension travel and a Seven with 300# springs just dosn't have that much travel. I see this as one of your smaller problems along the way to a finished car.
.
Personally, I've followed all the forum chatter and read the books and have shortened my rack to what I think is close to the right length and positioned it to minimize bumpster,.............. I think.
I now have it tuned down to about 3/8" of toe in at two inches of bump. I think that will prove to be a small amount and hardly noticeable, to me at least. (Pictures of how I went about this on the suspension page.)
I guess , after all this rambling, my advice is: Keep the car simple, get out in the garage and build it, don't over plan, keep things moving. drive the car when your done, then fix the things that need it.
Even if you were going to race, learn to drive the car to it's limits, as is, before doing much to "improve it" Most of the problem may well be your driving skills. Take lessons.
Even race cars aren't perfect, the driver learns to use what he has. That's what makes
winners. Remember, no one ever said the Lotus Seven had perfect suspension.
I know I've over simplified a bit on this. There's nothing wrong with planning just don't let it paralyze you. After all, it only goes so far in the real world usually.
If tinkering with suspension models and design on your computer makes you happy, then by all means, carry on. Design the car "you" want.
You owe it to no one to build more or less than you want or need.
If it's your first car it will not be perfect. Except this and your own limits and you have a chance of finishing the project. If not, it's sure to end up a pile of unfinished scrap taking up half your garage.
Again, just my humble thoughts. who knows, I may have to recant all this when my car rolls under it's own power, should I ever be able to finish it.
Wayne Evans
Simon borrowed some of my thoughts and format, (we seem to think a bit alike) added his own to in and has the extra credibility of having a finished car. And a very nice one at that.
His "ramblings" section is worth a read too..
